Riposte to Proverb #7 - Dialogue with Tim Lyons (Photographer, conservationist [and we think] ... a generally good person)

After we posted here, an interesting thing happened with Tim Lyons who gave us permission to use his 'Wet Rat' photo. (He later gave us permission to use some shots out of his database of shots to illustrate our proverbs). Here's our thread with him.

We First Wrote:

Hello,Great shot ... I wonder if I can use it on a web project of mine ...

We will acknowledge you ...

Tim Lyons:
What is the nature of the project?

We Wrote:

Nothing big ... a book of proverbs for my native country men and women - Ibos.

We have a proverb about a lizard and a wet rat and your 'wet rat' is an excellent picture.

I will post up a shoddy mock up soon ... give me a few ticks ...

And then we also Wrote:

Hi, If your ping back systems haven't warned you yet, I am posting so you see the kind of use I have made of the image. It's here: Cheers:  [LINK REMOVED] , I uploaded a modified combo, so there are no bandwidth issues. I posted a little link, so my interested visitors can visit your site to see the great big picture n (in) all it's glory. If there are any issues, just write to me here and you would find me compliant. Cheers.

Tim Lyons:

Very interesting web site. You're welcome to use my photo.I was a little concerned about what someone would want with a photo of a rat, especially a wet one. Most people don't like rats, and I don't want my photos used disrespectfully or commercially. When I found the rat I assumed that he (she) was dead, and I'd was inches away from it trying out different camera angles for awhile before it opened its eyes. My photographer friend was taking pictures from the other side, and we paused to see what it would do. It started crawling back toward the water, but it was having a hard time, so we moved it to the other side of the creek where it would be safer. I'm not especially fond of rats, but I was quite charmed with this one, and I hope that he did well after we left.

We Wrote:
Thank you Tim, for your kind permission. Yea I am hoping the rat made it, too. Nice thing to have been tender with the rat. Thanks for comments on the site, too.

AND THEN TIM WROTE: !!
Tim Lyons:

There's been an interesting update on my photo. I sent a link to your web site to a friend, who is a retired biology professor, and he thinks that my rat is actually a chipmunk. he made a convincing case, and he would know more about rat foot structure than I do. Based on his analysis, I intend to change the name to Wet Chipmunk. This would be a trivial matter if our web sites weren't linked by this photo. You're still welcome to use my photo with or without credit to me. The image on your web site illustrates your proverb well, and I doubt that anyone would be able to tell whether it was a rat or chipmunk from your web site. My suggestion would be to leave the photo on your site as it is and remove the link to my photo. If you prefer, I could also remove your comment on my web site. Let me know what you would prefer.

[Hmm ... how to respond?]


We Wrote:

Hi Tim,

Thanks for keeping in touch like this and for the updates ... what I might like to do is provide some more detail to my own users by posting our correspondence as part of the comments. I suppose the professor will have a bit more information and he is probably right, so do update your labels to 'Wet Chipmunk' ...

But like you noted, the proverb is well illustrated by your photo and I should be loathe to loose the link to your site too.

My country men and women know this proverb quite well - one of our 'so called' classics - and I suppose they can accept our 'poetic license' in substituting rat for chipmunk. As an aside, we also do have loads of squirrels and chipmunks nesting in our backyards in Igbo land and we probably can indulge in a small game of 'spot the difference'. Our variety of chipmunks usually have a white line running along the side of these animals, which is absent from the photo, but I am prepared to own or concede the professor's point as the colour of the fur and the shape of the ears don't ring 'rat-true', to turn a phrase.

Our commentary, if you allow me to post it will suggest something to our users about the level of dedication, we are bringing to this project. Also, (I have well over a 1000 proverbs to document), I should not want to start manipulating a fresh image. And the very exercise of discussing 'live' pictures and wondering whether they apply is just the sort of context we need to bed our proverbs in a bit.

Let me know what you think at any rate ... Cheers.

And We also wrote:
Oh ... forgot to add ... I can always update my own links to read 'Wet Chipmunk' ... this is good?

Tim Lyons:
That's fine.

He also wrote:
Tim Lyons:
Our chipmunks do have white lines, and not seeing one was part of the reason that I thought it was something other than a chipmunk. The tail looked more rat-like than chipmunk to me, but my professor friend thinks that the hairs are just matted down. Feel free to post our commentary.
I updated the label on my web site to "Wet Chipmunk."

So we have updated the link on our site to read 'Wet Chipmunk'.

We thank Tim Lyons for an interesting dialogue, conversation and collaboration.
He gave us permission to use a few of his applicable photos to illustrate our proverbs.
He also showed us what their chipmunks look like. See Tim's Chipmunks


Umu Igbo gbanụ egbe ọnụ. Kwanyere Tim Lyons, Onye amam ihie, na dike n'igwe onyo~onyo, ugwu dịrị ya. Kelenụ yo: Kpum !! Kpum !! Kpotom!!!
Ndi ndom: Bienu Oroo !


To Tim Lyons, ... please 'hear' our rifle shots and guns (mkpọn'ala); accept our symbolic red cap and eagle feathers :-) (turu ugo). Thank you.

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